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2010 Flux Bindings

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Started 6 months ago by admin
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Posted 6 months ago #

dylanpipe

Loungin Since Jan '10
Vermont
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2010 Flux Bindings

Since, hes in AK, PNW companys probally have a strong influence up there,just likeif you lived in vt(like i do) everyone has burton(unlike me), so its probally like where you live, and what companyys are very big around there, they buy those, maybe?
Posted 6 months ago #

kimchijajonshim

Loungin Since Feb '10
Twin Cities
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2010 Flux Bindings

dk said:

spenser said: speaking for my shop, we are going through a similar thing. we added capita/union this year, mervin last year, and are adding yes and possibly jones next year, as well as a little flux.
the answer to all of it is that we are going much lighter on burton boards. they just dont sell well at all, while mervin kills it here, and capita did well too, as did union. i think yes will do well, and i only did a very small flux order to test it out, but i think theyll do fine.

Are you guys steering your buyers towards mervin/capita? I have a hard time believing the general snowboard community is not buying Burton.

I don't know about the general snowboard community, but I was chatting the buyer at a shop back in the Bay Area that had noticeably less Burton-dominated stock compared to past years. He told me they planned on buying less Burton going forward due to a combination of poor sell-through and annoyance with Burton moving into direct sales. There's also a snow/skate shop I hit occasionally in Minneapolis that actually dropped Burton this year (or maybe the year before, they had previous years' stuff but not the 2010 line when I came in). Didn't ask the owner why, but based on his stock his focus seemed to be on smaller brands like Bataleon, Never Summer, and Stepchild with some Mervin and Rome mixed in.

It's only two shops and purely anecdotal, so take it with a grain of salt. I would be curious to see if it reflects and industry-wide trend.
Posted 6 months ago #

DK

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2010 Flux Bindings

kimchijajonshim said:

dk said:

spenser said: speaking for my shop, we are going through a similar thing. we added capita/union this year, mervin last year, and are adding yes and possibly jones next year, as well as a little flux.
the answer to all of it is that we are going much lighter on burton boards. they just dont sell well at all, while mervin kills it here, and capita did well too, as did union. i think yes will do well, and i only did a very small flux order to test it out, but i think theyll do fine.

Are you guys steering your buyers towards mervin/capita? I have a hard time believing the general snowboard community is not buying Burton.

I don't know about the general snowboard community, but I was chatting the buyer at a shop back in the Bay Area that had noticeably less Burton-dominated stock compared to past years. He told me they planned on buying less Burton going forward due to a combination of poor sell-through and annoyance with Burton moving into direct sales.

I figured that would be part of it. B cutting their own throat.
Posted 6 months ago #

Boom.Roasted

Loungin Since Feb '10

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2010 Flux Bindings

B going direct is win/win. shops don't have to order crushing amounts of b gear and burton makes a higher margin on the stuff they sell on their own
Posted 6 months ago #

suchick13

Loungin Since Oct '09
Happy Mollusk
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2010 Flux Bindings

spenser said: speaking for my shop, we are going through a similar thing. we added capita/union this year, mervin last year, and are adding yes and possibly jones next year, as well as a little flux.
the answer to all of it is that we are going much lighter on burton boards. they just dont sell well at all, while mervin kills it here, and capita did well too, as did union. i think yes will do well, and i only did a very small flux order to test it out, but i think theyll do fine.

It'll be interesting to see what the sell through and blended margin on the Capita/union, Mervin and Yes will give your shop vs Burton when all is said and done. It always blows me away that once you get outside of Burton, just how regionally strong some brands are.

While my husband has zero interest in the interwebz, each season when he gets back from SIA, he'll start hovering over my shoulder while I'm on EL, casually asking "So umm... what's the buzz with your buddies for next year ?" I'll pass on where the chatter is on EL.

Flux just isn't on the radar here in central Canada. I told him Yes boards were getting some play and good feedback, but he just made this crinkly-nosed face at me. So I gather they will *not* be in the assortment next year. He dropped Rome, but added Lib back in. And trying Roxy for the first time.
Posted 6 months ago #

suchick13

Loungin Since Oct '09
Happy Mollusk
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2010 Flux Bindings

boomroasted said: B going direct is win/win. shops don't have to order crushing amounts of b gear and burton makes a higher margin on the stuff they sell on their own

This was hands down, the most heated business debate inside Burton while I worked there. Absolutely the margin potential of going direct was a huge seduction for Burton.

However at some point, I believe retailers ask themselves "Sooooo... are you my supplier ? Or my competition ?" And as long as Burton can convince them the equation tilts more to the former then the latter, stores will continue to write orders.

But if the store feels that Burton is robbing them of sell through by "stealing" their customers; or deliberately shorting their orders so that Burton's own company stores can be in-stock ; or start to narrow what parts of the line they can buy.... then, it gets ugly.
For the retailer I mean. It rarely gets ugly for Burton.
:P
Posted 6 months ago #

Unregistered

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2010 Flux Bindings

boomroasted said: B going direct is win/win. shops don't have to order crushing amounts of b gear and burton makes a higher margin on the stuff they sell on their own

doubt it is totally win win, at the end of the year, they will just dump leftovers (and there are many on the B site) on the market (patio tards) to flood out any retailers offering sales...
Posted 6 months ago #

Boom.Roasted

Loungin Since Feb '10

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2010 Flux Bindings

i'm sure burton feels they have the leverage, after a couple of weak snow years here the only shops that went under were the ones that didn't carry burton (could be a coincidence). time will tell if they still have the leverage.
Posted 6 months ago #

Spenser

Loungin Since Aug '09
Juneau
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2010 Flux Bindings

this year was our 4th year in snowboarding (07, 08, 09, 2010) and we started with mervin with 09 gear.. mervin has always been big here, before it was big in general. its just a PNW thing to begin with, and these days its the banana/mtx craze (which really isnt that big here.. no trend ever is, and we are always about 2-5 years behind the rest of the country) and it helps that our local guy (mark landvik) is a long time lib rider and pretty much all the riders near 30 or over 30 grew up with him, skating and snowboarding. even i grew up skating with all those guys and they are mostly all ~10 or so years older than me.

i think people are just getting over it. for us, burton did fine the first couple years, but we were smaller and it was mostly all we had. the boards just dont sell anymore... we are sitting on a ton of them from this year and last year, and even some 08s. i can remember selling two specific burton boards this year (and one i pushed on a kid, and the other was the only fitting board in the entire store that we had for the other guy), whereas i remember every person that bought a capita and i basically know exactly which person bought which mervin, and we get requests all the time. we probably did at least as big a mervin board order as burton if not bigger, and we had to do an almost equally big re-order just a short way into the season. in some ways we do lean toward the other brands ourselves, but in most cases, thats what the customer is gravitating toward on their own.

burton bindings and boots still do well though and we arent really going to shrink much there. we might make a little adjustment for more unions (which we basically sold out of as soon as they came in the door) and flux, but theyre still a pretty strong seller for us. we carried technine in 07 and 08 and it never did well and we still have some laying around. did a small bent metal order and got stuck with most of them too.

and sort of on a side note, the market here is just totally different. there are VERY very few people who even know of the huge offseason sales online, and even in store. people still think in terms of retail prices during the season.. they dont really think about snowboarding during summer.. thats part of the reason our resort is managed so strangely/shittily, and why they cant afford to step it up, build better parks (not that i personally care to ride park), stay open longer, work harder to open earlier, do night riding, etc.
Posted 6 months ago #

Midget Mafiosa

Loungin Since Sep '09
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2010 Flux Bindings

east coast shops (from what i've seen) still do tremendously well with burton. i see a shift away from that out west, almost a backlash. i know people here who've never ridden a burton board, just because. whereas in new england, i'd be hard pressed to find someone who'd never owned/ridden burton.
Posted 6 months ago #

kimchijajonshim

Loungin Since Feb '10
Twin Cities
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2010 Flux Bindings

suchick13 said:
However at some point, I believe retailers ask themselves "Sooooo... are you my supplier ? Or my competition ?" And as long as Burton can convince them the equation tilts more to the former then the latter, stores will continue to write orders.
But if the store feels that Burton is robbing them of sell through by "stealing" their customers; or deliberately shorting their orders so that Burton's own company stores can be in-stock ; or start to narrow what parts of the line they can buy.... then, it gets ugly.

Pretty much sums up the situation with the buyer I spoke with. His exact words re: direct sales were, "Well, what do they need us for then?"
Posted 6 months ago #

KyleAST

Loungin Since Feb '10
Minne-snow-ta
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2010 Flux Bindings

Point in case, if you get Flux bindings, i will buy them, along with a Smokin board.

I read this WHOLE thread, and EVERY first hand account of riding Flux said that they loved them. Not a single basher said, yea I rode the Titans, and they sucked.

Its an impression thing, Flux owns the market in Japan and they dont try to get markets over here. Flux is the #2 brand over there.

Ive owned K2, Ride, Rome, Burton, Union, Bent Metal, T9, Salomon, Drake, Nidecker, and Flux.. know what was mounted on both my boards ...

FLUX

I had the feedbacks on my Arbor Abacus (pow slayer) and the Titans are mounted on my Lib TRS BTX. IMO best bindings Ive ever ridden, after my Abacus got stolen I was stuck in Steamboat with my park board (imagine my disappointment) but the BTX held well in the fresh and the Titans were perfect. I couldnt be happer with Flux, as people have stated before Their capstraps are super cush, their highbacks are very non intrusive, they have great response and a great hold. If people hate on them I think its because they arent well represented in the us, and for Riders who dont pay for Flux

Eric Willet (you know the X games big air finalist, and the rider who finished top 10 in the TTR this weekend at the TAC in Norway), JP Solberg (yes the guy who used to get Burton bindings for free), Romain de Marchi

if your going to say they dont have any professional rider representation, at least do a google search first
Posted 6 months ago #

abrakfkingdabra

Loungin Since Sep '09
Congo
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2010 Flux Bindings

Personally i feel like Burton has peaked in terms of selling to the core market - they must realize that their main market is no longer core snowboarders, but the genenral public at large. They will continue to grow, but that growth will be driven though sales mainly to peole who are weekend warriors, or who saw Shaun White on teh tonight show, or want the board from his computer game.

As Spenser says, here in Europe there is still a lot of Burton sitting on the shelves, whereas Capitas, Mervin, YES, Bataleon all sold out months ago. I think a lot of snowboard shops are fed up with the way Burton has bullied them into overstocking in the past, and realise that most customers are more interested in niche brands.

If i had a shop, i wouldnt carry Burton. Burton is going the way of Quiksilver, and will be a lifestyle company more than a snowboard company. They only need to sell direct, and in Walmart/Sports authority, because thats where the majority of their customers now shop. Most kids going into a proper snowboard shop just arent into Burton.
Posted 6 months ago #

KyleAST

Loungin Since Feb '10
Minne-snow-ta
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2010 Flux Bindings

abrakfkingdabra said: .
As Spenser says, here in Europe there is still a lot of Burton sitting on the shelves, whereas Capitas, Mervin, YES, Bataleon all sold out months ago.......
Burton is going the way of Quiksilver, and will be a lifestyle company more than a snowboard company. They only need to sell direct, and in Walmart/Sports authority, because thats where the majority of their customers now shop. Most kids going into a proper snowboard shop just arent into Burton.

Pssstt.... Quiksilver owns Mervin.... and DC
Posted 6 months ago #

Midget Mafiosa

Loungin Since Sep '09
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2010 Flux Bindings

kyleast said:

abrakfkingdabra said: .
As Spenser says, here in Europe there is still a lot of Burton sitting on the shelves, whereas Capitas, Mervin, YES, Bataleon all sold out months ago.......
Burton is going the way of Quiksilver, and will be a lifestyle company more than a snowboard company. They only need to sell direct, and in Walmart/Sports authority, because thats where the majority of their customers now shop. Most kids going into a proper snowboard shop just arent into Burton.

Pssstt.... Quiksilver owns Mervin.... and DC

eggzactly. and "most kids?" judging by the rabid burton fandom on this site, and the tastes of over 50% of east coast snowboarders i know, i would question who your demographic is, and where you are getting your numbers.
Posted 6 months ago #

KyleAST

Loungin Since Feb '10
Minne-snow-ta
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2010 Flux Bindings

I agree, maybe its different in Europe, I went into my local shop today which now carries Bataleon, and the owners sister is a midwest rep for bataleon and they were sold out, the only boards they had left in stock were Ride, Salomon and Burton. But they had alot of Burton to begin with

Also recently it sounds like Burton pulled the plug on their agreement with SierraSnowboard
Posted 6 months ago #

Midget Mafiosa

Loungin Since Sep '09
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2010 Flux Bindings

yep, burton has changed their relationship status to "seeing other people" as far as sierra goes. the patio store is not taking it well. but there is a patioland thread for that already...
Posted 6 months ago #

abrakfkingdabra

Loungin Since Sep '09
Congo
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2010 Flux Bindings

I know Quik owns Mervin - thats not the point i was making - How many people do you see walking down the street in a Quik tshirt/shorts etc, even if they have never set foot on a surfboard? The same thing goes for Burton, you see lots of people wearing Burton/Analog t shirts, jackets, hats in London, many of whom have never set foot on a snowboard.

My point is to expand in an already saturated and dwindling hardgoods market, Burton need to seek sales beyond the core market. They know that they are no longer the cool company amongst core riders, so why bother marketing too much to them - As much as Uninc gave them a lot of respect fro the likes of us, it didnt do much for the bottom line - Shaun White is their Kelly Slater, they will get more sales from kids/their parents/your average Joe buying his stuff than they will from the like of us. If Burton is to grow, it is into this demographic that they must go to get sales, and no doubt this is why the upper management is staffed by people who have experience of cracking this market.

In the UK the market is split between people who go to Europe for a week every year, and go to one of the big stores to get kitted out, and inevitably walk out head to toe Burton, as it is the one brand they recognise, mainly from mainstream media exposure, and is heavily pushed by the larger chain stores. The rest of the market ( and the much smaller segment) is the dudes ad dudettes who go to the snowdomes every weekend, and want the coolest latest stuff from small core brands. They would not go near Burton with a bargepole.

Sure there is rabid fandom for Burton on here, but Burton is a company that deals with a worldwide market, and the picture varies greatly when you take a global view. In Europe it used to be that a lot of American hard goods where hard to come by, and as such had a certain misty status to them, whereas now the market is saturated, and being an American brand is no longer a sales point by itself.

I still believe that because most people have no opportunity to try before you buy, that snowboard sales are driven by marketing Hype - take Mervin, i like most of their tech, but their recent sales have been driven by the media hype more than customer feedback, because if you look at any forum there are as many detractors as there are proponents of BTX/MTX etc.

I guess my point is that Burton are no longer the coolest kids in town, which is what most companies rely on to push sales, but for them is doesnt matter as the majority of their sales probably come from people who are completely unaware of who or what is cool on forums like these, but do know that Burton is the brand Shaun White rides, who supplied the Olympic kit, and whose stores they have seen in LA/NY etc etc, and are available in their local Sport Authority.
Posted 6 months ago #

Boom.Roasted

Loungin Since Feb '10

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2010 Flux Bindings

i wonder if quiksilvers current financial predicament is giving burton second thoughts? and how old is the interview jake gave with benedek for his book? in that interview he expresses concern over the growth at any cost mentality
Posted 6 months ago #

suchick13

Loungin Since Oct '09
Happy Mollusk
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2010 Flux Bindings

abra's post above is EXACTLY what Clark G would hammer home during Burton round table meetings when discussing long term strategy. i.e. That Quik, like Harley Davidson, is an "aspirational brand". Tons of people own a Harley t-shirt who don't own a Harley bike, or haven't even ridden one. Should some kid who has the mis-fortune to live in Upper Rubber Boot Flatland Saskatchewan, not be "allowed" to wear a Burton t-shirt or buy a Burton board, just because they can't get out an ride as much as some one who lives in Tahoe ?

Where I slightly disagree is the contention that Burton is no longer the "coolest kid in town" - it is, for the majority of the populace. I know the community here is far more informed, dialed and "core", and therefore can act like the canary in the coal mine at times. But for the vast majority of the riding populace - and retailers - the one thing Burton brings to the table is that it is reliably "cool". Not offensive. They never "dumb it down" when it comes to graphics. And their marketing is on-point for the greatest bell curve volume of riders - whether or not the "core" group on EL thinks so or not.
Posted 6 months ago #

Midget Mafiosa

Loungin Since Sep '09
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2010 Flux Bindings

suchick13 said:
Where I slightly disagree is the contention that Burton is no longer the "coolest kid in town" - it is, for the majority of the populace. I know the community here is far more informed, dialed and "core", and therefore can act like the canary in the coal mine at times. But for the vast majority of the riding populace - and retailers - the one thing Burton brings to the table is that it is reliably "cool". Not offensive. They never "dumb it down" when it comes to graphics. And their marketing is on-point for the greatest bell curve volume of riders - whether or not the "core" group on EL thinks so or not.

and this would be how they continue to hold such a large market share. ;)
Posted 6 months ago #

89c51

Loungin Since Oct '09
The Halcyon Days
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2010 Flux Bindings

IMO the thing that makes burton products sale good is momentum

its a brand that people know trust and recognize and above all they make good products

there are not "the best" anymore -whatever this can mean in an era where the competition is huge- but at least you know that it will not be bad

people tend to stick to what they know
Posted 6 months ago #

Midget Mafiosa

Loungin Since Sep '09
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2010 Flux Bindings

89c51 said: IMO the thing that makes burton products sale good is momentum
its a brand that people know trust and recognize and above all they make good products
there are not "the best" anymore -whatever this can mean in an era where the competition is huge- but at least you know that it will not be bad
people tend to stick to what they know

Kleenex = tissues. (At least in the States.) Whether or not they are the best, that's what comes to mind. Burton = snowboards.
Posted 6 months ago #

suchick13

Loungin Since Oct '09
Happy Mollusk
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2010 Flux Bindings

I realize this conversation has strayed waaay far from "should we carry Flux or not" ?
The life cycle of a brand probably deserves it's own thread. No brand can peak forever. At some point, it's life cycle means different consumers & different channel of distribution. Retail is rife with brands that started out as cool, and then ended up at mass merchants*.

If Burton over the next decade, ends up becoming the 'mature brand' with big box distribution, will Forum take over the niche Burton used to occupy as the more "core" brand and infiltrate more shop distribution. Or will Burton develop a 3rd brand and adopt a "good / better / best" portfolio of brands with accompanying price points and distribution. And keep the "best" for their on-line and free standing O&O shops only.

* aka 'Where Brands Go To Die'
Posted 6 months ago #

abrakfkingdabra

Loungin Since Sep '09
Congo
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2010 Flux Bindings

suchick13 said: abra's post above is EXACTLY what Clark G would hammer home during Burton round table meetings when discussing long term strategy. i.e. That Quik, like Harley Davidson, is an "aspirational brand". Tons of people own a Harley t-shirt who don't own a Harley bike, or haven't even ridden one. Should some kid who has the mis-fortune to live in Upper Rubber Boot Flatland Saskatchewan, not be "allowed" to wear a Burton t-shirt or buy a Burton board, just because they can't get out an ride as much as some one who lives in Tahoe ?
Where I slightly disagree is the contention that Burton is no longer the "coolest kid in town" - it is, for the majority of the populace. I know the community here is far more informed, dialed and "core", and therefore can act like the canary in the coal mine at times. But for the vast majority of the riding populace - and retailers - the one thing Burton brings to the table is that it is reliably "cool". Not offensive. They never "dumb it down" when it comes to graphics. And their marketing is on-point for the greatest bell curve volume of riders - whether or not the "core" group on EL thinks so or not.

Yeah you hit it on the head - most of my non snowboarding friends, and those who go maybe once every couple of years, think Burton is a very cool brand - and TBH that is what counts. I dont think they are un-cool, but they certainly dont have the same aura about them as they did. 10 years ago i would have agreed that for a couple of bucks more you were getting a lot better board from Burton than from someone else, these days i feel they are asking 30% more for a board that isnt really any better or worse than the competition.
Posted 6 months ago #

suchick13

Loungin Since Oct '09
Happy Mollusk
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2010 Flux Bindings

My SuperModel built at the BMC factory was probably the most robust deck I ever owned.

My only current beef with Burton is they kept my husband hostage from 7 a.m. Monday until 1 a.m. Tuesday this week, writing 2011's orders.
And didn't send him home with even a t-shirt or stickers.
:P
Posted 6 months ago #

Midget Mafiosa

Loungin Since Sep '09
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2010 Flux Bindings

no t-shirts or stickers????? that's downright inhumane! screw burton, let em rot, then! no stickers. the nerve!
Posted 6 months ago #

drjcv

Loungin Since Aug '09
phil collins... is fucking out of his mind
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2010 Flux Bindings

nvm
Posted 6 months ago #

kpozan

Loungin Since Mar '10
Chicago
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2010 Flux Bindings

boomroasted said:

dr-doodlebug said: Flux don't break easily and burtons do. That has been my experience and would influence my purchasing decisions far more than what bindings won in the olympics or who came up with something first.

so please explain to me why most top pros use burton and not flux if they break so easily? is Rice stupid? is lando stupid?

Because Burton pays them to use their bindings, and they get free pairs if the break. It's called being sponsored, and since Burton is the most popular brand, they probably pay the most money to their riders.
Posted 6 months ago #

ironLUNG

Loungin Since Sep '09
WUTANG in tha CUT
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2010 Flux Bindings

Flux suck, buy union. They have reliably sucked for over 5 or 6 years, still not improving that much.

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