THE ANAEROBIC AND ANABOLIC THREAD

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  1. Mr_Tidbit

    Mr_Tidbit


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    THE ANAEROBIC AND ANABOLIC THREAD   

    I've been slowly training for a half marathon in September and this past weekend I did my first 13.1 mile run just to see where I am. I managed to do it in 2 hours and 3 minutes which isn't horrible but I def. want to improve on that time.

    At about the 11 mile mark I hit a wall and really slowed down to and 11 minute mile which carried over to the 12th as well. I noticed after my run on the mapmyrun app that I did average a 8:30 min mile the first 6.5 miles of the run, including a 6:51 mile my 5th mile in. So I'm guessing that pace was a bit too fast the first half and is what caused me to slow down at the end.

    If there are any loungers out there that do any distance running I'd love any feedback or advice you might have so I don't hit that wall at 11 miles when I try again in a couple of weeks.

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    dr-dre said:  cool. whatever works for you.
    this spreadsheet is the best one i've found and lays out everything nicely in a printable format
    http://www.allthingsgym.com/2012/01/531-excel-spreadsheet-by-poteto-v1-28/

     

    Word, thanks for the spreadsheet. I'd hit you up for the book but I'm handling everything off my phone, don't have a computer at the moment.

  3. Dr. Dre

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    mr_tidbit said: I've been slowly training for a half marathon in September and this past weekend I did my first 13.1 mile run just to see where I am. I managed to do it in 2 hours and 3 minutes which isn't horrible but I def. want to improve on that time.
    At about the 11 mile mark I hit a wall and really slowed down to and 11 minute mile which carried over to the 12th as well. I noticed after my run on the mapmyrun app that I did average a 8:30 min mile the first 6.5 miles of the run, including a 6:51 mile my 5th mile in. So I'm guessing that pace was a bit too fast the first half and is what caused me to slow down at the end.
    If there are any loungers out there that do any distance running I'd love any feedback or advice you might have so I don't hit that wall at 11 miles when I try again in a couple of weeks.

     that aint bad. if you get that down to under 2 hours you're flying. i've ran 2 of them in the past year in Vegas and San Diego, both with terrible times around the 2:30 mark. but i didn't really train at all though, just lifted heavy.  

  4. Mr_Tidbit

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    dr-dre said:

    mr_tidbit said: I've been slowly training for a half marathon in September and this past weekend I did my first 13.1 mile run just to see where I am. I managed to do it in 2 hours and 3 minutes which isn't horrible but I def. want to improve on that time.
    At about the 11 mile mark I hit a wall and really slowed down to and 11 minute mile which carried over to the 12th as well. I noticed after my run on the mapmyrun app that I did average a 8:30 min mile the first 6.5 miles of the run, including a 6:51 mile my 5th mile in. So I'm guessing that pace was a bit too fast the first half and is what caused me to slow down at the end.
    If there are any loungers out there that do any distance running I'd love any feedback or advice you might have so I don't hit that wall at 11 miles when I try again in a couple of weeks.

     that aint bad. if you get that down to under 2 hours you're flying. i've ran 2 of them in the past year in Vegas and San Diego, both with terrible times around the 2:30 mark. but i didn't really train at all though, just lifted heavy.  

     

    Thanks, my training so far has consisted of my regular crossfit workouts and 3 runs a week varying from 5-10 miles in distance. This was my first attempt at 13.1... so it was a learning experience to update my training routine.

    I've found some sites that have various tips and the biggest one seems to be to intentionally run the first half slower than the second, so you have the stamina at the end to finish strong. So next time I go for this distance I'm going to set out to do it in an hour in the hopes of running the second half in under an hour and see how that goes as I did the first half in 52:10 and the second half in 1:12:13 Saturday.

  5. YouKnowLarry

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    Tried out a new local gym today.

    Pros:
    - They let me throw weights.
    - Empty.
    - Gymnastic rings.
    - No squat rack curlers.
    - No treadmills.
    - They let me play my own music.

    Cons:
    - No 2.5 lb plates.
    - It's primarily personal training only so if it's busy I can't use the equipment.

    Now I just gotta wait to see how much they're gonna charge me.

  6. Dr. Dre

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     what about the plates? bumpers or steel?

  7. YouKnowLarry

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    Bumpers, for the most part. The floor is all rubber mat too. They had a couple steel 5s and 10s.

    I loved doing weighted chin-ups on the rings though. That was my first time trying it. Gonna give dips a shot on Wednesday.

  8. buggravy

    buggravy


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     Anybody taken, or otherwise have any thoughts on Glutamin? I haven't taken any supplements besides protein in a long time, and am not necessarily looking to add anything, but a friend of mine who has made massive gains over the last year swears by it. Thinking of at least trying it while I'm doing this 5X5.

  9. bboytommy

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    i just wish 24 hours had some bumpers for power cleans. sounds like a neat gym though.

     tidbit: i trained and did a marathon so i can only share some general advice. sounds like you're in great shape this far away from the event though. I would reccommend doing a long run 13.2+ miles just so you are mentally prepared race day. schedule your long runs at the same time you will be running the half, and treat it like the actual event. meaning waking up at the same time, eating (if you choose it), go to sleep two nights before. so on days leading up to race day and the event itself, nothing is changed.

    as far as you hitting the wall, you might want to consider a gel, chew, or some type of simple carb to consume about halfway through. the runner's wall is caused by total depletion of muscle glycogen and your body is trying to convert fat stores for fuels (a very slow process).

    definitely run the first half slower, and remind yourself of this. many runners die out because the hype on race day will get you blasting out the gate.

    sounds like you know what you're doing so you should be great. keep up the hard work.

  10. YouKnowLarry

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    buggravy said:  Anybody taken, or otherwise have any thoughts on Glutamin? I haven't taken any supplements besides protein in a long time, and am not necessarily looking to add anything, but a friend of mine who has made massive gains over the last year swears by it. Thinking of at least trying it while I'm doing this 5X5.

     I tried it. Stopped taking it. I couldn't conclude whether it was helping or not (sometimes I felt like it did, others I didn't). After coming off it, I didn't notice any let-down in recovery or strength, so I figured it was useless. You'll get everything you need from the food you eat.

    Don't forget -- there are lots of people that have had "massive gains" that say you need to eat perfectly balanced meals all day every day until the end of time or your body will shrivel up into a catabolic mess and die. They may be big, but they're wrong. Don't fall into the broscience trap.  

  11. Mr_Tidbit

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    bboytommy said: i just wish 24 hours had some bumpers for power cleans. sounds like a neat gym though.
     tidbit: i trained and did a marathon so i can only share some general advice. sounds like you're in great shape this far away from the event though. I would reccommend doing a long run 13.2+ miles just so you are mentally prepared race day. schedule your long runs at the same time you will be running the half, and treat it like the actual event. meaning waking up at the same time, eating (if you choose it), go to sleep two nights before. so on days leading up to race day and the event itself, nothing is changed.
    as far as you hitting the wall, you might want to consider a gel, chew, or some type of simple carb to consume about halfway through. the runner's wall is caused by total depletion of muscle glycogen and your body is trying to convert fat stores for fuels (a very slow process).
    definitely run the first half slower, and remind yourself of this. many runners die out because the hype on race day will get you blasting out the gate.
    sounds like you know what you're doing so you should be great. keep up the hard work.

     

    Thanks, I'm def. going to look into some kind of Gel/carb for half way through and slowing down the first half of the run next time.

    I ate an hour before the run, I had a 1/2 cup of steel cut oats and a fruit smoothie (Banana, Frozen papaya/mango/pineapple/strawberry, 3oz of trop 50 orange juice). This has actually been my regular breakfast for about a month now and I've considered adding a protein supplement to the smoothie. But after reading quite a bit in this thread, I think it might be overkill as I make a point to eat a lot of lean protein for dinner each night (93/7 Ground Beef, Turkey & Chicken). But I'm still wondering if I should add the supplement?

  12. YouKnowLarry

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    mr_tidbit said:

    bboytommy said: i just wish 24 hours had some bumpers for power cleans. sounds like a neat gym though.
     tidbit: i trained and did a marathon so i can only share some general advice. sounds like you're in great shape this far away from the event though. I would reccommend doing a long run 13.2+ miles just so you are mentally prepared race day. schedule your long runs at the same time you will be running the half, and treat it like the actual event. meaning waking up at the same time, eating (if you choose it), go to sleep two nights before. so on days leading up to race day and the event itself, nothing is changed.
    as far as you hitting the wall, you might want to consider a gel, chew, or some type of simple carb to consume about halfway through. the runner's wall is caused by total depletion of muscle glycogen and your body is trying to convert fat stores for fuels (a very slow process).
    definitely run the first half slower, and remind yourself of this. many runners die out because the hype on race day will get you blasting out the gate.
    sounds like you know what you're doing so you should be great. keep up the hard work.

     
    Thanks, I'm def. going to look into some kind of Gel/carb for half way through and slowing down the first half of the run next time.
    I ate an hour before the run, I had a 1/2 cup of steel cut oats and a fruit smoothie (Banana, Frozen papaya/mango/pineapple/strawberry, 3oz of trop 50 orange juice). This has actually been my regular breakfast for about a month now and I've considered adding a protein supplement to the smoothie. But after reading quite a bit in this thread, I think it might be overkill as I make a point to eat a lot of lean protein for dinner each night (93/7 Ground Beef, Turkey & Chicken). But I'm still wondering if I should add the supplement?

     You may actually want to consider ditching the carbohydrates altogether and replace them with protein. You may actually want to consider ditching food altogether, and getting your protein supplementation through BCAAs instead of whey/casein/egg albumen/soy/whatever).

    This study examines the increased metabolic response of protein vs. carbohydrate consumption prior to resistance training. There is evidence that this is also the case with endurance training, which is good news if you're trying to achieve better body composition as well.

    This study shows that carbohydrate consumption prior to endurance training may not be as beneficial as people once thought, given that the placebo group outperformed the glucose-fed group in nearly every measured category. I think the most interesting part of that is that the placebo group had increased retention of muscle glycogen during exercise, which is important if you plan on exerting yourself for 2+ hours since energy efficiency is more or less the name of the game.

    This study further supports the last one in showing that training in a fasted state may offer more benefits than training in a carbohydrate-fed state due to muscular/metabolic adaptations.

    ...evidence is also increasing to indicate that exercise in a carbohydrate-depleted state can contribute to promoting training adaptations.

    As indicated above, training in a carbohydrate-deficient state due to glycogen depletion or fasting may be useful to promote adaptations to endurance training.

    Furthermore, although training in the fasted state did not result in increased rate of fat oxidation during exercise with carbohydrate intake, glycogen breakdown was lower when compared with CHO.

    It even provides evidence that altering your training routine may be beneficial...

    For instance, there are recent data to indicate that training twice daily every second day is more effective to induce muscular adaptations and enhance endurance performance than training once daily

    ...but similar benefits can be achieved through correct nutrient timing.

    Still, in most individuals, high-intensity training twice daily is not a practicable time schedule to facilitate training adaptations. Training in the fasted state, i.e., decreasing exogenous carbohydrate supply, could provide a valid adjuvant stimulus to enhance training adaptations.

    All that being said, it is still important to nourish yourself with carbohydrates appropriately, but perhaps not before exercise.  

  13. bboytommy

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    interesting research larry.

    i personally didn't eat much before training. especially since i ran in the early hours of the day. at most maybe half a banana and some gatorade.

  14. YouKnowLarry

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    bboytommy said: interesting research larry.
    i personally didn't eat much before training. especially since i ran in the early hours of the day. at most maybe half a banana and some gatorade.

    Your suggestion of eating a gel or candy during the race seems to be a good one. There's quite a bit of evidence (like here and here) that shows ingestion of a carbohydrate mixture during prolonged endurance training increases exogenous carbohydrate oxidation, making your body's energy stores more readily available.

    Now, I'm no endurance athlete, but combined with strategic training/dietary adaptations that could be a winning formula for anyone trying to get over "the wall."        

  15. bboytommy

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    yep. while the wall is a physiological phenomena it affects you mentally because the brain is the top priority of the carbohydrate storage tank. meaning, once you are extremely low on carbohydrate stores the brain makes a strong attempt to convince the body and mind to stop activity in order to preserve the remaining carbs for brain fuel.

    you suddenly want to stop running/you feel like quitting. it's the toughest mental block i've ever experienced. for my marathon, i've only ran as much as 22 miles during my longest training run. mentally, my mind was convinced I couldn't do it because I've never physically been through 23, 24, 25, and 26 miles. Knowing what i do now, i would've trained longer to reach a 27/28 mile run. that's why i suggest doing a run longer than your half so you are mentally ready.

    on another note. i've been having some slight pain/irritation in my left hip joint during my back squats. it gets better on my third set so im not sure if it's a flexibility or lack of warm up/stretching issue. i feel it at the very top after getting out of the bottom of the squat. thoughts and suggestions?

  16. Mr_Tidbit

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    I have tried not eating anything before runs in the morning or just tried a banana and that didn't go over to well. But maybe I might try some turkey bacon and eggs or something along those lines instead of steel oats next time along with something midway through the run to see how my body reacts. Thanks again

  17. Mr_Tidbit

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    bboytommy said:
    on another note. i've been having some slight pain/irritation in my left hip joint during my back squats. it gets better on my third set so im not sure if it's a flexibility or lack of warm up/stretching issue. i feel it at the very top after getting out of the bottom of the squat. thoughts and suggestions?

     

    I've had the same issues with my hip during squats. I talked with my trainer and along with my regular stretching/warm up routine along with starting light on my squats, he had me to start doing the couch stretch, which has really helped the pain in my left hip. I will often do them in between "big" sets. When I say big, the most I've put up on a back squat is 225...

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  18. YouKnowLarry

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    bboytommy said:
    on another note. i've been having some slight pain/irritation in my left hip joint during my back squats. it gets better on my third set so im not sure if it's a flexibility or lack of warm up/stretching issue. i feel it at the very top after getting out of the bottom of the squat. thoughts and suggestions?

     Is the pain in the joint or over it? On the side or front?

  19. YouKnowLarry

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    mr_tidbit said: I have tried not eating anything before runs in the morning or just tried a banana and that didn't go over to well. But maybe I might try some turkey bacon and eggs or something along those lines instead of steel oats next time along with something midway through the run to see how my body reacts. Thanks again

     If you're used to eating breakfast before a run, then decide you want to do without breakfast one instance before your training, you'll almost certainly experience some disruption in your circadian rhythm. The effects are less real than perceived.

    Fat ingestion prior to or immediately following exercise offers absolutely zero performance or athletic benefits.

  20. bboytommy

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    id say more so on joint/socket. so front of the hip i gues.

  21. YouKnowLarry

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    Sounds like a flexibility issue like James mentioned.

  22. Eva

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     30 min midnight run. felt great. i should run more at night.

  23. Joka17Wild

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     started sqautting again yesterday. god damn i've gotta stretch more, my hamstrings started to lock up after my second set.

  24. YouKnowLarry

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    That's one of the points of your warm-ups. It's a dynamic stretch under a ligther load.

  25. sevenstarsfall

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     Picked up a Powertec rack, Parabody 874 FID bench, and 390lbs of olympic weights for $300 today. Now I'm just looking to pick up a Bodysolid (or similar) leg press/hack squat machine.

  26. bboytommy

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    wow that's a pretty good deal considering how expensive the rack is alone.

    i did a lot more warming up today on the bike and row machine. did an extra 2 sets of warm up squats and stretched in between sets. the hip felt a little better although it still felt a little tight. hopefully i can stretch it out over the next few workouts so it disappears.

  27. zkurd

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    Cigar + stretches = Like a fuckin' boss.

  28. zkurd

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    Walked into the gym today to find Maximus also known to us mortals as Russell Crowe working out with his personal trainer.

     

  29. zkurd

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     Seriously, I almost yelled out 'MAXIMUUUUUUS', but then thought better of it.

  30. Dr. Dre

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     popped my left shoulder out mid flight on a cliff jump in lake havasu yesterday. usually they don't hurt this bad the day after but this time it kills. gonna take today off and lift lightly tomorrow. hopefully it doesn't set me back too far.

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